RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904 pre-review & discussion
Hi,
Actually, I was in an impression that liaisons would be needed if/when we actually engage with the work. Anything before that is premature from my point of view, since we have no established PAR even - nor TF to decide what goes in a liaison from the technical point of view.
- JOuni
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marek Hajduczenia [mailto:marek.hajduczenia@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 1:47 PM
> To: 'Raz Gabe'; Jouni Korhonen; 'AshwoodsmithPeter'; Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-
> WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904 pre-review &
> discussion
>
> I think liaisons are fine, but we need a WG / Study Group to be able to send
> these. Who would send these today? 1904 WG?
>
> Marek
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx [mailto:stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Raz Gabe
> Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 6:44 AM
> To: Jouni Korhonen; AshwoodsmithPeter; Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-
> WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904 pre-review &
> discussion
>
> Thanks Jouni,
> About ITU, I'm referring to ETSI ORI work.
> Rgrds
> --Raz
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jouni Korhonen [mailto:jouni.korhonen@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 1:41 PM
> To: Raz Gabe; AshwoodsmithPeter; Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-
> WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904 pre-review &
> discussion
>
> Raz,
>
> Thank you for the review. Please, see my comments inline.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Raz Gabe [mailto:Raz.Gabe@xxxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 1:13 PM
> > To: AshwoodsmithPeter; Jouni Korhonen; Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-
> > WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > pre-review & discussion
> >
> > Hi,
> > One more item that in paragraph 5.4.
> > "This standard enables the transfer of IQ user-plane data, vendor
> > specific data, and control and management (C&M) information channels
> > across an Ethernet- based packet-switched network and fosters
> > interoperability among implementations by defining framing, including
> > headers for the encapsulated information, and common Ethernet Types.
> > The unified encapsulation and header format allows for future
> > development also on other transport technologies than Ethernet"
> >
> > If we will add the mapping in the work, we will need the detail how
> > mapping is done (or not?). then we will need the "vendor specific
> data...."
> > 1. Do you expect that 1904- WG will do the task?
>
> [Jouni Korhonen]
> Yes, since the vendor specific data is just a flow from a mapper point of view
> among other flows (IQ, C&M etc). We (or the mapper) has no interest what goes
> in it or what its internal structure is.
>
> > About more information from other standard bodies:
> > 1. I think that we need to liaison CPRI group about the work (or maybe
> > get a liaison from them?)
> [Jouni Korhonen]
> It is already identified that we probably need to liaise with CPRI.. and a number
> of other SDOs as well. Basically to describe what we would be doing.
>
> We would actually like to hear what CPRI is doing for their 7.x specs e.g.
> whether the basic/hyper frame format or line coding changes etc.
>
> 2. I think that ITU is doing also some work in that
> > direction...can you clarify? Or we need to liaison them also?
>
> [Jouni Korhonen]
> I assume you refer to ETSI ORI work? Or the CPRI over OTN in SG15 years back?
>
> > 3. As it handles items of RRH and other processes in 3GPP arena,
> > should we liaison to them also?
>
> [Jouni Korhonen]
> I am not sure 3GPP has anything to say here or we have to say to them. That
> might change if the 3GPP actually goes into direction of defining something for
> the fronthaul transport.
>
> - Jouni
> >
> > Rgrds
> > --Raz
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx [mailto:stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> > Of AshwoodsmithPeter
> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 11:09 PM
> > To: Jouni Korhonen; Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > pre-review & discussion
> >
> > Glen,
> >
> > In general IP allows traffic to follow many paths between source and
> > destination and CPRI will require more nailed up forwarding together
> > with behavior to guarantee timing etc. at those hops. As a result
> > native
> IP is more challenging.
> > Source routing / SPRING or Pseudo wires over MPLS would however be
> > good candidates. MPLS pseudo wires are of course already in use for
> > backhaul networks as are MPLS-TP connections.
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx [mailto:stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> > Of Jouni Korhonen
> > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 3:58 PM
> > To: Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > pre-review & discussion
> >
> > Glen,
> >
> > Actually there is no reason why IP could not be used as a transport
> > (see for example existing SaToP and TDMoIP work in IETF). However, we
> > are already somewhat tight with the capacity for Ethernet and the fat
> > IP+UDP header would not help there.
> >
> > Our intention is to work on this topic in pragmatic steps. Solve the
> > Ethernet first, since it has a great promise e.g., in C-RAN. Once
> > Ethernet is done, it is time to look for other transports that are
> > likely to benefit from the Ethernet encapsulation being already
> > there.. but that work is likely to be done in other SDO than IEEE.
> >
> > - Jouni
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Glen Kramer
> > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 10:42 PM
> > > To: Jouni Korhonen; 'STDS-1904-WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > > pre-review & discussion
> > >
> > > Jouni,
> > >
> > > Another question I was asked off reflector:
> > >
> > > "Why wouldn't this kind of traffic be carried over IP?"
> > >
> > > Can you clarify, please?
> > >
> > > Glen
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jouni Korhonen
> > > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 11:57 AM
> > > > To: Marek Hajduczenia; Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > > Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > > > pre-review & discussion
> > > >
> > > > Marek,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for reviewing the PAR. Comments pointing out ambiguity
> > > > in the text are very important.
> > > >
> > > > It is not the intention to touch the Ethernet header, by adding
> > > > /removing / changing existing fields. Since this seemed not to
> > > > crystal clear we better clarify the PAR text on this. Could you
> > > > point at which part of the text exactly gave you this impression?
> > > >
> > > > Headers the PAR mentions are what you refer as " a simple mapping
> > > > of data received from RF interface into payload of an Ethernet frame".
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jouni
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx [mailto:stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx] On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > Marek Hajduczenia
> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 9:36 PM
> > > > > To: Glen Kramer; 'STDS-1904-WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > > > Subject: RE: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > > > > pre-review & discussion
> > > > >
> > > > > Glen, et al.,
> > > > >
> > > > > I do not have immediate issues with PAR, but it is not clear at
> > > > > this time what
> > > > the
> > > > > scope of the work would be. PAR mentions "encapsulation of
> > > > > digitized
> > > > radio In-
> > > > > phase Quadrature (IQ) pay-load and related control data into an
> > > > > Ethernet
> > > > packet
> > > > > including the necessary encapsulation header within the
> > > > > encapsulating
> > > > Ethernet
> > > > > frame", which to me reads like a simple mapping of data received
> > > > > from RF interface into payload of an Ethernet frame.
> > > > > However, in different locations PAR refers to Ethernet headers,
> > > > > which
> > > > might be
> > > > > interpreted as implied changes to already defined Ethernet
> > > > > header, by
> > > > adding /
> > > > > removing / changing existing fields. I am not sure whether that
> > > > > is the intent
> > > > of
> > > > > the authors, but some more details on what they are trying to
> > > > > achieve
> > > > would be
> > > > > welcome, perhaps in a form of a Power Point deck showing details
> > > > > of
> > > > needed
> > > > > mapping and intended changes (if any) to Ethernet framing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The only reason why I bring it up is that we (1904WG) do not
> > > > > control
> > > > Ethernet
> > > > > frame structure, and while we can specify how data is mapped
> > > > > from RF
> > > > interface
> > > > > into Ethernet payload, changing the structure of Ethernet
> > > > > headers would
> > > > imply
> > > > > close cooperation with 802.3.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regards
> > > > >
> > > > > Marek
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx [mailto:stds-1904-wg@xxxxxxxx] On
> > > > > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > Glen Kramer
> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 2:16 PM
> > > > > To: STDS-1904-WG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: FW: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > > > > pre-review & discussion
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Colleagues,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have received the following request for Radio-over-Ethernet
> > > > > (RoE)
> > > > project to
> > > > > be formed under 1904 WG. The draft PAR is attached.
> > > > > We will vote on this PAR at the next meeting. Meanwhile, I
> > > > > encourage
> > > > everyone
> > > > > to review and discuss the draft PAR on the reflector. Feel free
> > > > > to contact
> > > > PAR
> > > > > authors with any questions, or if you want your name to be added
> > > > > as a supporter.
> > > > >
> > > > > If approved, this PAR will become 1904.3 project.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you,
> > > > > Glen
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Jouni Korhonen
> > > > > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 12:00 AM
> > > > > To: Glen Kramer
> > > > > Cc: Zongying He; Jay (James) Teborek; duanran@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> > > > > cuichunfeng@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; liu.qiong@xxxxxxxxxx;
> > > > > Patrice.Plante@xxxxxxxxxx; zhang.boshan@xxxxxxxxxx;
> > > > > satoru.matsushima@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; tero.mustala@xxxxxxx;
> > > > > huangjinri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; Peter.AshwoodSmith@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > > > Subject: Radio over Ethernet draft PAR for the IEEE 1904
> > > > > pre-review &
> > > > discussion
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear chair of the IEEE 1904 ANWG,
> > > > >
> > > > > Please see the attached draft version of the PAR for Radio over
> > > > > Ethernet
> > > > > (RoE) standardization effort that we (the individuals in the CC
> > > > > list) seek to
> > > > pursue
> > > > > under the IEEE 1904 ANWG. We welcome a review and comments from
> > > > > 1904 members on the current draft version of the PAR. We intend
> > > > > to
> > > > present this
> > > > > PAR in the forthcoming 1904 meeting in Wuhan to drive our cause,
> > > > > which
> > > > means
> > > > > we also ask for a presentation slot in the forthcoming 1904
> > > > > meeting
> > > > agenda.
> > > > >
> > > > > Should there be any additional backup material prior the
> > > > > meeting, please
> > > > let us
> > > > > know. If there are any other matters we should be aware of just
> > > > > let us
> > > > know.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > Jouni (on behalf of the PAR preparation team)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Jouni Korhonen
> > > > > CTO Office, Networking
> > > > > Broadcom